Mobil 1 V-twin 20w50 = Smoother shifting
#11
09-05-2011, 12:11 AM
However, for $20, Blackstone will tell you from an empirical standpoint if those oils are working, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
For what we spend on these bikes, I'd rather pay a lab $20 to *confirm* with hard scientific analysis that what I'm using is correct.
And I feel you should too.
#12
09-05-2011, 05:35 AM
#13
09-05-2011, 08:37 AM
The transmissions on Harleys is not like a modern car transmission with hypoid gears that require a GL-5 heavy gear oil.
Not only does HD recommend the use of their own Syn3 20w50, you will easily find hundreds if not thousands of members on this forum and other HD related forums that run a 20w50 motor oil in their transmission.
Mobil also recommends it over their other offerings that meet GL-5 specs, and gear lube:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ide_Glide.aspx
The F+ lube (and/or the Syn3) that HD has recommended is essentially a 50 weight gear oil, which is VERY similar to the 20w50 I'm using.
There is a TON of discussion on this, you will hear lots of opinions on all sides of this debate, but I decided to go this way because I read a LOT of reports of guys who have used M1 Vtwin in all three holes (or two, depending on the bike) for many years and many tens of thousands of miles with no issues.
Also, I change out the primary/trans oil with every engine oil change. It only adds $10 to the cost of an oil change and it gives me some peace of mind that those gears have fresh oil+additives.
I'll be closely monitoring the magnetic primary drain plug, and the oil analysis in 3000 miles will tell me if I have higher than normal levels of metallic content in the oil, that would be an indicator that the choice of M1 20w50 was not ideal, and I'll try a GL-5 oil (there are NO yellow metals in our trans/primaries) such as M1 75w90, Redline Heavy Shockproof, or Motul 300/7100.
Not only does HD recommend the use of their own Syn3 20w50, you will easily find hundreds if not thousands of members on this forum and other HD related forums that run a 20w50 motor oil in their transmission.
Mobil also recommends it over their other offerings that meet GL-5 specs, and gear lube:
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ide_Glide.aspx
The F+ lube (and/or the Syn3) that HD has recommended is essentially a 50 weight gear oil, which is VERY similar to the 20w50 I'm using.
There is a TON of discussion on this, you will hear lots of opinions on all sides of this debate, but I decided to go this way because I read a LOT of reports of guys who have used M1 Vtwin in all three holes (or two, depending on the bike) for many years and many tens of thousands of miles with no issues.
Also, I change out the primary/trans oil with every engine oil change. It only adds $10 to the cost of an oil change and it gives me some peace of mind that those gears have fresh oil+additives.
I'll be closely monitoring the magnetic primary drain plug, and the oil analysis in 3000 miles will tell me if I have higher than normal levels of metallic content in the oil, that would be an indicator that the choice of M1 20w50 was not ideal, and I'll try a GL-5 oil (there are NO yellow metals in our trans/primaries) such as M1 75w90, Redline Heavy Shockproof, or Motul 300/7100.
The MoCo no longer recommends the use of 20w-50 motor oil in the gear box, it simply says its OK to use it. They recommend using Formula+ gear oil in the primary/tranny.
Motor Oils contain additive packages designed to deal with the byproducts of the combustion process in the motor, which are of little use in a gearbox. Gear oils contain additives that are designed to deal with molecular shearing which occurs in a gearbox.
Formula+ is not a 50 weight Gear Oil, its an 85 weight Gear Oil.
SAE Motor Oil and SAE Gear Oil viscosity are measured on completely different scales. A 50 weight motor oil is not the same viscosity as a 50 weight gear oil. A 20w50 Motor Oil is basically equivalent to a 75-90 Gear Oil (see chart below)
There's an entire section here on the forum just on oil info. It's worth spending a few hours reading if your interested in separating truth from fiction.
#14
09-05-2011, 09:15 AM
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#15
09-05-2011, 11:06 AM
Thanks for the correction above, I misspoke when I said the F+ was a 50 weight gear oil, I meant to say that is about the equivalent of a 50 weight motor oil.
I was basing that statement on the fact that 20w50 motor oil and 75w90 gear oil have very similar characteristics in the temp ranges that they would see in the application under discussion.
At any rate, I'll be updating this thread with an oil analysis in a few months, so we should have some good data then.
I was basing that statement on the fact that 20w50 motor oil and 75w90 gear oil have very similar characteristics in the temp ranges that they would see in the application under discussion.
At any rate, I'll be updating this thread with an oil analysis in a few months, so we should have some good data then.
#16
09-05-2011, 08:25 PM
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Just wanted to throw this in here for others that are on the fence.
I did my 1000 mile service this weekend and used Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 for both the engine and primary, and here is what I've noticed:
Smoother shifting (both up and down)
Neutral to first "clunk" is a bit reduced
Clunk from an imperfect **** is reduced
Engine runs 8-12 degrees cooler for the same speed, gear, fuel, and ambient temps versus HD dino oil
Clockwork sound of the engine (sewing machine sound) is slightly increased
Not wanting to start another big oil thread, just reporting that on my particular bike, at the 1000 mile mark I'm very pleased with this oil.
In 3000 miles I'll change it out, get a Blackstone analysis done, and post the detailed analysis here as a followup.
I did my 1000 mile service this weekend and used Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 for both the engine and primary, and here is what I've noticed:
Smoother shifting (both up and down)
Neutral to first "clunk" is a bit reduced
Clunk from an imperfect **** is reduced
Engine runs 8-12 degrees cooler for the same speed, gear, fuel, and ambient temps versus HD dino oil
Clockwork sound of the engine (sewing machine sound) is slightly increased
Not wanting to start another big oil thread, just reporting that on my particular bike, at the 1000 mile mark I'm very pleased with this oil.
In 3000 miles I'll change it out, get a Blackstone analysis done, and post the detailed analysis here as a followup.
#17
09-05-2011, 09:53 PM
If you look in this whitepaper published by AMSOIL, you can check the Mobil 1 V-Twin results for the 4 ball wear test as well as the gear wear results, they are VERY good.
http://www.performanceoiltechnology....aper_g2156.pdf
Based on that test, I have full faith that this oil is an excellent choice for primary use (where both the 4 ball and gear wear results would apply), as well as the engine.
The remaining concern would be how it performs on the wet clutch. The primary duty of oil in a wet clutch setup is to cool the clutch down, not to modify the friction of the clutch plate engagement (which is why its commonly accepted that car grade motor oils that advertise friction modifiers should not be used for motorcycle wet clutch applications). I see no reason why this oil would not be perform well for cooling the clutch, as it contains no friction modifiers, and I have not experienced any clutch slippage since I started using it.
If you did use the M1 Vtwin and experienced greater clutch slippage, it would be a good motivator to step away and try something else.
http://www.performanceoiltechnology....aper_g2156.pdf
Based on that test, I have full faith that this oil is an excellent choice for primary use (where both the 4 ball and gear wear results would apply), as well as the engine.
The remaining concern would be how it performs on the wet clutch. The primary duty of oil in a wet clutch setup is to cool the clutch down, not to modify the friction of the clutch plate engagement (which is why its commonly accepted that car grade motor oils that advertise friction modifiers should not be used for motorcycle wet clutch applications). I see no reason why this oil would not be perform well for cooling the clutch, as it contains no friction modifiers, and I have not experienced any clutch slippage since I started using it.
If you did use the M1 Vtwin and experienced greater clutch slippage, it would be a good motivator to step away and try something else.
#19
09-05-2011, 10:23 PM
So far really well.
I've put about 100 miles on this oil so far and both the engine and transmission are performing great.
I did get it pretty hot the other day, operating temps around 215F for the crank oil, and the transmission was still quiet and smooth shifting, no clutch slippage either.
So far so good, I'll drain both the engine and primary/trans after 3000 miles and get an analysis, which I will post.
I've put about 100 miles on this oil so far and both the engine and transmission are performing great.
I did get it pretty hot the other day, operating temps around 215F for the crank oil, and the transmission was still quiet and smooth shifting, no clutch slippage either.
So far so good, I'll drain both the engine and primary/trans after 3000 miles and get an analysis, which I will post.
