Biref ride on a Yamaha Roadliner
#21
07-27-2006, 02:51 AM
RE: Biref ride on a Yamaha Roadliner
You have good points about simplicity being good and not making something complicated for the sake of technology and make no mistake ... I love Harley's. I'm dying to sell my metric for a new Harley!!! That's why i joined this forum, because I'm excited that i'm finally going to become a Harley rider. But I still stand behind my opinion. It took Harley until 2000 to bother counter balancing their Soft Tale line. Get on an old Fat Boy and it shakes so hard parts fall off. If you think I'm wrong check motorcycle.com and read the V-Twin reviews prior to 2000 ... I have. In 2000 they finally did something about it with the twin Cam 88 ... something other companies have been doing for decades. (playing catch up) It took until 2004 for them to make the Sportster an all day riding bike by rubber mounting the motors ... something other makers did for their mid sized bike lines decades ago. (playing catch-up) In 2007 Harley introduced FI on their WHOLE motorcycle line. Fi has been around for years but their the 1st manufacturer to make it standard on their whole line. THAT is something they've done BEFORE most of the other bike manufacturers. Apparently they're sick of playing catch-up, they're becoming the leader ... again!
I know I sound anti Harley ... I'm not. I'm going crazy trying to finangle my 1st Harley; I've wanted one ever since the twin cam 88 came out. But when I'm talking about "catching up" I'm referring to making bikes that don't **** oil or shake themselves apart. I'm not referring to fancy breaks, bigger or faster. I'm talking being reliablility. Easy to work on is great if you like working on bikes but reliability is more important to many of us than ease or repair.
I know I sound anti Harley ... I'm not. I'm going crazy trying to finangle my 1st Harley; I've wanted one ever since the twin cam 88 came out. But when I'm talking about "catching up" I'm referring to making bikes that don't **** oil or shake themselves apart. I'm not referring to fancy breaks, bigger or faster. I'm talking being reliablility. Easy to work on is great if you like working on bikes but reliability is more important to many of us than ease or repair.
ORIGINAL: AZ Rider
Technology just for technology's sake makes things more complicated when they're not necessary. Bigger and faster engines are not necessarily better. If Harley has been playing catch up, why do Kawasaki and Yamaha now offer pushrod, air cooled v-twins?
Air cooled for simplicity. V-twins for torque and power where you need it, in the low rev range. Parts that are available for bikes made decades ago. If something works well, you stay with it.
The V-rod is a higher tech machine but they don't sell nearly as many compared to the big twins. BMW put servo assisted brakes on some of their bikes. Higer tech? Yep. More things to go wrong? Yep. Does servo brakes work that much better than what was on there? Heck no. More money, more problems, more parts, more of a pain in the tuckus.
One of the reasons I like Harley Davidson motorcycles is because they are evolutionary and not revolutionary in their design and progress.
let's be honest, Harley has been playing catch-up for several years now.
Air cooled for simplicity. V-twins for torque and power where you need it, in the low rev range. Parts that are available for bikes made decades ago. If something works well, you stay with it.
The V-rod is a higher tech machine but they don't sell nearly as many compared to the big twins. BMW put servo assisted brakes on some of their bikes. Higer tech? Yep. More things to go wrong? Yep. Does servo brakes work that much better than what was on there? Heck no. More money, more problems, more parts, more of a pain in the tuckus.
One of the reasons I like Harley Davidson motorcycles is because they are evolutionary and not revolutionary in their design and progress.
#22
07-27-2006, 08:27 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
RE: Biref ride on a Yamaha Roadliner
ORIGINAL: librarian
When I got back to the dealership, they asked me what I thought and I told them Yamaha needs to scrap their Venture touring bike and build their new touring bike on the Roadliner. With good bags, tourpack, cruise, stereo, intercom, etc, the Roadliner would be an excellent touring bike. They said that at least two others had said the same thing. So, am I ready to trade my Ultra for a Roadliner? Nope. I like the way my Ultra feels. It doesn't have the power of the Roadliner, but it makes me happy to ride it in a way that no other bike I've ridden or owned has ever done. I can't say why, but I know it is so. I would, however give a Roadliner serious consideration over a Wing if it was configured as a touring bike and the touring package was well done.
When I got back to the dealership, they asked me what I thought and I told them Yamaha needs to scrap their Venture touring bike and build their new touring bike on the Roadliner. With good bags, tourpack, cruise, stereo, intercom, etc, the Roadliner would be an excellent touring bike. They said that at least two others had said the same thing. So, am I ready to trade my Ultra for a Roadliner? Nope. I like the way my Ultra feels. It doesn't have the power of the Roadliner, but it makes me happy to ride it in a way that no other bike I've ridden or owned has ever done. I can't say why, but I know it is so. I would, however give a Roadliner serious consideration over a Wing if it was configured as a touring bike and the touring package was well done.
My father just laid one of those down. He lives in Canada and paid some stupid price for it. Though he's about 6' (wonder where the hell my height went then??) he had them lower it. He has been telling me that he's very uncomfortable with it because the center of gravity is so high.
Well, this last week, apparently he lost control and went down and through a ditch. Apparently did a lot of damage but not enough to total it. He's been talking about coming to visit me and keeps asking me prices of Harleys. I don't know what the rules are for tax purposes about buying a bike in the US and taking it to Canada (or if it's even allowed) but I expect him to be looking when he visits.
ORIGINAL: rrlavigne
I still own a Honda VTX1800. If they had the visual fit and finish of a Harley I'd probably keep it forever.
I still own a Honda VTX1800. If they had the visual fit and finish of a Harley I'd probably keep it forever.
I'm kinda of stunned to hear that. Not for a lack of belief how well the Harley fits but in general (cars and definitely sportbikes) Honda has always been ahead of the competition for fit and finish. I think Kawasaki has the same visual inspector that GM has.... probably Helen Keller.
ORIGINAL: AZ Rider
Technology just for technology's sake makes things more complicated when they're not necessary. Bigger and faster engines are not necessarily better. If Harley has been playing catch up, why do Kawasaki and Yamaha now offer pushrod, air cooled v-twins?
Air cooled for simplicity. V-twins for torque and power where you need it, in the low rev range. Parts that are available for bikes made decades ago. If something works well, you stay with it.
The V-rod is a higher tech machine but they don't sell nearly as many compared to the big twins. BMW put servo assisted brakes on some of their bikes. Higer tech? Yep. More things to go wrong? Yep. Does servo brakes work that much better than what was on there? Heck no. More money, more problems, more parts, more of a pain in the tuckus.
One of the reasons I like Harley Davidson motorcycles is because they are evolutionary and not revolutionary in their design and progress.
let's be honest, Harley has been playing catch-up for several years now.
Air cooled for simplicity. V-twins for torque and power where you need it, in the low rev range. Parts that are available for bikes made decades ago. If something works well, you stay with it.
The V-rod is a higher tech machine but they don't sell nearly as many compared to the big twins. BMW put servo assisted brakes on some of their bikes. Higer tech? Yep. More things to go wrong? Yep. Does servo brakes work that much better than what was on there? Heck no. More money, more problems, more parts, more of a pain in the tuckus.
One of the reasons I like Harley Davidson motorcycles is because they are evolutionary and not revolutionary in their design and progress.
I have to agree completely with this. I used to think that Harley was so outdated but their design is pretty simplistic and it works.... so why mess with a good thing.
I'm also wondering why Harley introduced (for example the softail) fuel injection but made it an option? Usually when a manufacturer brings out fuel injection in a new model year, they just do and there is no option. Perhaps even Harley isn't thrilled with it yet or perhaps it's hard to wean some of the old school boys off of it.
Mark
#23
07-27-2006, 09:14 AM
RE: Biref ride on a Yamaha Roadliner
My wife says that "the new bike doesn't feel as good as the old one". 76 sporty vs 06 StreetGlide. I guess vibration can be a good thing. 
#24
07-27-2006, 10:25 AM
RE: Biref ride on a Yamaha Roadliner
I'm also wondering why Harley introduced (for example the softail) fuel injection but made it an option? Usually when a manufacturer brings out fuel injection in a new model year, they just do and there is no option. Perhaps even Harley isn't thrilled with it yet or perhaps it's hard to wean some of the old school boys off of it.
#25
07-27-2006, 01:28 PM
RE: Biref ride on a Yamaha Roadliner
ORIGINAL: dgator66
My wife says that "the new bike doesn't feel as good as the old one". 76 sporty vs 06 StreetGlide. I guess vibration can be a good thing.
My wife says that "the new bike doesn't feel as good as the old one". 76 sporty vs 06 StreetGlide. I guess vibration can be a good thing.
I sat on a couple of the Roadliners and liked them well enough. I've not ridden one, but I suspect it's a competent bike.
Thanks for the review!
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